[talk] Magazine Journalism's Future in a Period of Recession in Discussion and Presentation of Issues

Michikazu Kohno: Editor-in-Chief of Chuokoron, Chuokoron Shinsya Inc.

Born in 1953. Graduated from the Faculty of Letters, Tokyo University. Joined Chuokoron Inc. (the current Chuokoron Shinsya Inc.). Led the successful renewal of Fujinkoron as the Editor-in-Chief. He is now the Chief of Magazine Editorial Room and the Editor-in-Chief of Chuokoron.

Atsushi Okamoto: Editor-in-Chief of Sekai, Iwanami Shoten

Born in 1954. Graduated from the School of Literature, Waseda University. Joined Iwanami Shoten in 1977. Joined the team of the monthly magazine "Sekai(World)", and managed several departments including politics, education, military affairs and environment. In 1996, became the Editor-in- Chief of `Sekai. In 1998, he had an exclusive interview with Kim Dae-jung, the President of Korea.

Yasushi Kudo, the representative of GENRON-NPO, which was launched with an aim to abolish the situation of recession in discussion and presentation of issues, invited Editor-in-Chief of Sekai and Chuokoron to discuss on how magazine journalism can contribute to the Japanese society, which has deepened its level of confusion. They concluded that editors themselves have to struggle with changes in the society and take them seriously.

Yasushi Kudo, the representative of "Genron NPO", which was launched with an aim to abolish the "Recession in discussion of the issues", invited two editors-in-chief from the most prominent general magazines in Japan; "Sekai" and "Chuokoron" to discuss how magazines can contribute to an increasingly confused Japanese society, and how they can develop as a media which leads debate and issues.

Mr. Okamoto started the discussion by pointing out that the current lack of debate and putting forth of relevant issues is changing, especially among the young generation. According to him, events and conditions such as the high unemployment rate, unstable working environment, and changes in international society following September 11 have help bring about this change.

Mr. Kohno of Chuokoron agreed with Mr. Okamoto, and added that a series of events starting with Yasuo Tanaka's victory in Nagano Prefecture governor election, the tense political situation led by Koichi Kato, and the birth of the Koizumi administration in April boosted people's interest to politics and, as a result, have opened the doors to more debate and the raising of significant issues.

Both of them agreed that the past situation situation in which issues were neither raised nor discussed could be attributed to Journalism itself, including the magazine publication industry. Politics, academic circles and journalism are all dominated by masculine language culture and have been using coded, insider language. They both understand that the future mission of magazines is to become more open to the general public, including women.

As for the Koizumi administration's reforms, Mr. Okamoto said "Deflation is a problem of demand. If the Koizumi administration gives priority to financial discipline it will fall into the same trap as did the Hashimoto administration in 1997". He added, "If the Koizumi administration gives priority to a policy of competition based on neo-liberalism, it may lead to an unstable society".

Mr. Kohno said, "The number of young people who do not expect the Japanese economy to reach the level of growth that it had in the past have increased. In this context, even if the government says, "No growth with no reform", the goal of growth will change drastically".

The conclusion of this discussion was that magazines should be more focused on the reality of the nation's problems and meet change head-on, in part by adopting an attitude that raises questions that are significant for Japan.

KUDO(Genron NPO Chief Editor) This NPO was launched to rekindle debate and top bring forth significant issues with an attitude of self-criticism. As these historic international and domestic changes occur, consequent and necessary debate will not occur if we editors do not make our positions clear, as opposed to just remaining neutral, by keeping the discussion one step ahead of the process.

I have invited you two today in order to discuss these issues and to listen to your ideas on this situation. Where do you foresee this debate going and what should be the issues?

Mr. Okamoto, what do you think?

OKAMOTO : I think the public and our readers' attention and seriousness toward debate have increased since September 11.

In terms of economic issues, unemployment has become a huge problem. The unemployment rate has been announced as 5.4% last October but I think it is higher for the younger and above middle-age generation. The problem is quite serious; even those who have a university degree find it hard to get a job, and high school graduates are in a more severe situation.

In this economic situation, all people are seriously considering how they should pursue their lives. During the "Bubble Economy", there was almost no need to deeply think about the society or economy, however, now people have no choice but to think about those them.

One more issue is terrorism and war. The Japanese people's reaction to this issue is completely different than it was to the Gulf War. The Gulf War was in Iraq, far from here, and it was perceived as being a remote situation. Watching the actual act of terrorism on TV it becomes obvious that things have been changing not only in the world but also here in Japan, and people, especially the young generation, begin to understand that this kind of thing could happen anywhere.

The theme of Sekai, November 2001, was "standing against a war of retaliation" and this issue was sold out in three days. It was unprecedented in that it appealed to the young generation and students. Approximately 10 offers came to its authors to lead seminars in university festivals. Seeing these reactions, I think students consider that this anti-terrorism war and succeeding events are relevant to them.

To to deal with the anxiety that is a result of these events, and to answer the fundamental questions on the future of the world is our mission, the magazine's mission. TV, newspaper or the Internet will provide information but it tends to be fragmented. I think magazines, given the number of pages they have, have the ability to deeply pursue events including historical issues. In this context, we cannot only think about the lack of debate and issues it is our responsibility it is our responsibility to meet our readers' interests."Criticism Attenuates in a Narrow World" (KOHNO)

KUDO: Mr. Kohno, what is your opinion?

KOHNO: It was January 2001 when I became editor-in-chief of "Chuo Koron". Prior to this, for six and half years I had been editor-in-chief of "Fujin Koron", a monthly female magazine. At the end of the year, two years ago, there was a search for a new editor-in-chief of “Chuo Koron”, which was attended by scholars, business people and people from public relations firms, who have supported "Chuo Koron". When I was editor-in-chief of "Fujin Koron", I frequently would join the women's meetings. Compared with those, the "Chuo Koron" meetings seemed to be dull. At the "Fujin Koron" meetings women gathered and talked with each other at the center of the hall. They dressed beautifully; they were powerful and lent gaiety to the hall.

On the other hand, at "Chuo Koron" parties men wore dark business suits. Most of them were standing near the wall with a whisky-and-water in their hands. When somebody made a speech, they listened to him and clapped their hands but nobody gathered at the center of the hall. Looking at this, my heart sank at the thought that I had to return to this sort of world. Then, I was asked to make a speech as the next editor-in-chief of "Chuo Koron", I frankly said what I had felt at the hall. In short, when I compare men with women, men seem to be inertial. When I thought of the fact that the press is dominated by men, I couldn't but think of how I should change the atmosphere of a man-dominated world.

When I moved to the editorial division of "Chuo Koron", I reviewed of who had written for this magazine and who have read it. Writers have not yet changed much compared with six years ago when I was there, whereas the readers' average age has gone up and I was not able to get young readers. I thought the world of criticism attenuated and closed.

During the period from October to November of 2000, Tanaka became governor of Nagano Prefecture and the former LDP secretary-general Koichi Kato attempted a revolt in the Diet, which gave me an impression that things had started to change gradually. However, after the failure of Kato’s revolt until the Upper House election of last July, I asked pundits what would have happened. Their answers were "nothing would happen", so I am not sure why the volcanic energy of people erupted.

The birth of the Koizumi government is, in my view, the starting point of what happened in the previous six months. With the inauguration of the Koizumi government, people have been more given to express their opinions. The Koizumi administration was born with the birth of the Tanaka administration in Nagano Prefecture and the revolt of former LDP secretary-general Kato.

Critics have said that the popularity of Koizumi is a bubble, but even if that is true it has engendered a huge change in that people became interested in politics for the first time.We Need Innovative Rather than Stable Magazines (KOHNO)

KUDO: I agreed with Mr. Kono. That is, magazines tend to depend on celebrities or leading figures. I think there is a question concerning how magazines should be, which embraces the issue of looking for new voices.

OKAMOTO : If we could answer that question easily, our jobs would be easy. Frankly speaking, I am also working hard in this respect.

However, there are an increasing number of young writers in "Sekai" and "Chuo Koron". There are still writers in their 60s and 70s, nevertheless, there are also a fair number of writers in their 30s and 40s. Whether the increase of young writers to our magazines leads to an increase in young readers is unknown.

As Mr. Kohno said before, general interest magazines are considered to be old hat; their readers are mainly old men. Some are content with this status quo and target only middle-aged men. These days women have money and time and are capable of thinking, speaking, and creating networks. How can we form a relationship with such women in their 20s and 30s?

There are six staffers in the editorial division of "Sekai", out of them two are women. I would like to treasure their input into our work but I have not done as good a job as I should have.

KUDO: Mr. Kohno, how are you going to find new writers for your magazine?

KOHNO: I have told the staffers of our editorial division that we should not choose writers based on such factors as celebrity or the number of books they have written.

It doesn't matter if a writer is old or young, male or female, as long as he or she tries to challenge us new with ideas. We welcome those who have written for us in the past but also seek new writers. Editors have also been conservative and stuck with the same old themes and so, along with the discovery of new writers, we must also seek new themes. Traditionally we ask this writer to write on a theme, or another to write with a different take, and by doing so we may have a degree of success. However, I proposed to our staffers that we should stop doing things in the traditional, conventional way and be more concerned with the credibility of the magazine. The problem is to what extent readers care about the continuity of our magazine and their evaluation of our writers. I think readers want those writers who have new ideas and new style of writing. Therefore, we editors should not hesitate in these regards.

We cannot assume that such an approach will always succeeds, sometimes it does and sometimes it does not, but we must proceed through trial and error.Dualism No Longer Makes Sense (OKAMOTO)

KUDO: If readers have some doubt about which they want to read and we editors are aware of the issues and challenges to them, if we just show them the various opinions, we will fail.

Whether it is "Sekai" or "Chuo Koron", these two time-honored magazines have embraced various arguments. Ideological conflict became less important with the end of the cold war, terrorism recently has been of obvious importance, and due to the rebound of globalism the U.S. has come to a turning point. Japan has not been able to find a new way after the demise of its post-war system. The large number of its bad loans has put it on the verge of collapse. Given these circumstances conventional arguments will just leave us stuck in a static state.

With what sort of awareness of issues should we discuss matters with our writers and nurture them? This is, in a sense, is related to the origin of magazines. What is the editorial division of "Sekai"'s take on this?

OKAMOTO : "Sekai" was inaugurated at the end of 1945, that is, the magazine started with the inauguration of the post-war system. About a half century has passed since its inauguration. "Chuo Koron" and "Bungei Shunju" have much longer histories than our magazine. The difference between our beginnings and theirs, however, is that we started seeking the answers to why the war took place and why it was not stopped. That is why Mr. Shigeo Iwanami inaugurated this magazine. This is the soul and origin of our magazine. If we do not understand these points, it makes no sense to continue publishing our magazine.

However, it doesn't mean that we should continue to follow an old tradition. As Mr. Kudo mentioned, the cold war ended ten years ago. The dualism which was dominant during the cold war period no longer makes sense. After September 11 the world has changed again, although it is still not clear how or to what extent it has changed. People around the globe have just started discussing this matter. I am sure the world will change drastically. At a time such as this, what sort of society should we build in Japan or in East Asia? Certainly, the question includes every aspect such as economy, security, environment and so forth. I would like this awareness to frame my thinking.

It is a tough question and our editorial division continues to debate it. So, sometimes I think I need to give direction how to edit a particular issue. Without a clear direction in editing, magazines will not appeal to the readers. Hence, setting direction is one of an editor-in-chief's most important jobs.Try to Always Cast Questions to Public (KOHNO)

KUDO: How about Mr. Kohno?

KOHNO: regarding the stance of a magazine, it is hard to say in the case of "Chuo Koron". We have not yet reached a conclusion as to whether our magazine is just a general interest magazine or opinion magazine. In our company opinions are varied. It is true that in the past we have edited our magazine by handling various arguments about a variety of themes, as if it is a mirror on society. However, the circumstances have changed and what contemporary times requires has changed. A general interest magazine also needs to change. I suppose we need to prepare a clear mission for our magazine. We can not draw a clear conclusion even if we discuss the identity of "Chuo Koron". Therefore, every editor-in-chief must take the lead on his/her responsibility.

The other day an owner of a bookshop gave me an idea to increase our magazine’s sales. That is to edit our magazine in such a way that issues are explained in a different way, from oblique angles, for example, as if you were asked by somebody else. If we change our magazine in such a way, people will definitely read our magazine.

This leads to another important matter. Thus far, our discussions have tended to be by and for "experts". We have constrained ourselves within this world, thinking that if we broadened our scope to the more common world, people would disdain us. The academic world and world of critics are narrow and essentially male. We may need to open our magazine to women and laymen.

Now, we are attempting to draft a preamble of a dream constitution with Mr. Hideshi Otsuka, a critic, as its exponent. We started this plan with the active involvement of our readers. Regardless of the pros and cons of the Constitution, this trial and error is very interesting. We have already received about 150 ideas from our readers, some of which are very unique. As a magazine, we would like to call upon and speak to the public. The Koizumi Reforms are Biased Toward the Corporate View (Kohno)

KUDO: When judged schematically, "Sekai" and "Chuo-Koron", as well as "Toyo-Keizai" for which I worked, are considered to be liberal. On the other side there are some magazines that would assert with straight emotions such anti-America or anti-China opinions. These magazines sometimes sell substantially.

Looked at from another angle, we might say that after the collapse of the ideological confrontation, the appeal of arguments put forth by liberal magazines might have been weakened. In other words, their arguments were abstract, still tainted with ideology, and were not grounded in reality when the business world and everybody's life had been changing rapidly and drastically. We have sympathy for a self-reliant society with individualism and personalism. However, we also hope to serve society and promote social welfare. So, where does the discussion go from here? I would like to ask you this in the context of the Koizumi revolution.

OKAMOTO: I agree with you on your observation that the appeal of such arguments might have been weakening. I think, however, that one of the causes of this might be their dependence on the formalized relationship between magazines and their readers. Also such arguments might have been made using specialist language that would only be understood within the press business. You might say that these arguments were made by specialists and could not be followed by average readers. This phenomenon can be observed not only in magazines but also in newspapers or in the world of politics. The reasons why arguments are not broadened should be looked for not only in our own attitudes but also in the overall social background.

With regard to the Koizumi Reforms, originally we could not clearly understand its meaning but now it is clear that this Reform is basically in line with the economic reform policies of neo-liberalism. Of course reform should deal with problems linked to specific public corporations, the financial resources dedicated to road construction and public works in general. But with regard to economic policies, I think the Koizumi Reforms are too focused on strengthening corporate side (supply side). The reasons for the current recession lie rather in the demand side. That is, consumption, not production, is too weak. In such a situation if we are biased toward strengthening corporations, social welfare expenses will be reduced, unemployment will be in danger of increasing and pensions might not be paid in the future. Under these conditions consumer spending will decrease, just the opposite of what is intended. We cannot stop the deflation spiral by such measures.

In 1997 the Hashimoto Cabinet, following the scenario written by the Ministry of Finance, increased the consumption tax rate and increased the burden of medical expenses. This, along with other similar policies, caused a sudden cooling of the economy that resulted in the failure of Mr. Hashimoto’s financial reform policies. I am very much afraid Mr. Koizumi will repeat this tragedy.An increasing number of youngsters do not want economic growth (KOHNO)

KUDO: There are diverse opinions on the Koizumi Reforms among the specialists of economics and his plans for political reform are not clear. One of the most discussed issues today is the advance assessment of draft bills by the ruling party. Laws and policies are formed by the Policy Research Committee or by other sub-committees of the LDP rather than by the Cabinet. Both Cabinet and Diet are reduced to mere formal status. The LDP will ferociously attack anyone who says that advance assessments are not necessary.

If one takes England as the ideal for parliamentary cabinet systems, there the ruling party and the government are unified and the members of the cabinet and the leaders of the party are the same. The Japanese parliamentary cabinet system clearly has defects.

Given that this is the case, it is worrying that voters still elect such politicians. Because we elect interests-adjustment type of politicians, committees are required in order to adjust interests there. Solutions to contemporary problems cannot be found only by discussion in Nagata-cho. As Mr. Kohno pointed out, we have to become aware of the viewpoint of the people and we should start expressing our opinions.

KOHNO: It is really painful that we can not see a clear future for this country. I'll soon be 50 years and when we reach such an age we don't want to be worrying about these things but have a continuity that allows us to live tomorrow as an extension of yesterday. However, younger people must be feeling the pain of our current situation. They must be seriously worrying about this country's future and what kind of happiness will they be able to enjoy when they reach their 30s or 40s. In speaking with younger people, they express such ideas or opinions as: "I do not care much about economic growth" or "I do not expect our country to be more than average." When we take such observations into consideration, the policy of "no restructuring, no growth", is called into question when there is less expectation for growth.

KUDO: As you say, it would be impossible to set regaining the economic growth rates of the past as a goal of the Reforms, or to maintain the current size of the economy. The values of the young generations are changing and they are looking for a different way of life and different lifestyles. These may lead to new visions of Japan as a nation.

KOHNO: Looking at today's international environment, Chinese economic power is rapidly growing, and last fall's terrorist incident have created an unrecognizable world. Even though we are in such a period of drastic changes, we can’t say that Japan has made it clear how we should manage the nation nor has it created a national strategy upon which we can build priorities. We can’t expect much from politicians in terms of developing the vision needed for nation-building, nor can we expect that they can educate people who would work for the realization of such visions.

Although Koizumi talks about politics in his own words, we don't think these words are sufficient to create dreams in young people that are necessary for nation-building. Therefore, getting people who have so far not spoken out, and those who are seriously worried about the nation’s future, to express their opinions should be the goal of general magazines as well as specified opinion magazines.We can't confirm changes if we don't get out and look for ourselves.(KOHNO)

OKAMOTO : There was a mention about a strong sense among the young people that "We do not need further growth." Such a change must have come from the fact that as the de-regulation of labor has progressed, unstable part time employment, such as "freeters" or dispatched workers, has been increasing; resulting in lower wages and concerns for an unstable future. In such a situation it is impossible for them to understand why they have to pay into the pension fund or why they should take co-responsibility with the older generation in cost sharing. When the society does not exert its responsibility toward young people, how can you expect young people to bear responsibility towards society? We have some student part time workers at our office. They do not assume responsibility for “Sekai”. A rapid increase in the number of such people means a rapid decrease in the number of those who bear the work with true responsibility. This phenomenon is already popular in the US, but Japanese policies have also been progressing in this direction. If such a trend continues, the society as a whole might be weakened within 10 years.

I do not like Yoshinori Kobayashi and the only thing that he says with which I agree is that the sense of "civic duty" has been rapidly declining. While mistake of Mr. Kobayashi is that he ascribes this to the people of the nation, I think those who most lack this sense of "civic duty" is the bureaucrats, i.e., those who are in charge of changing the nation. Be it BSE issues, AIDS, or the Kawabe River Dam, they cannot but accept criticism for not having done their duties at all. Everybody wonders what he or she pay taxes for.

We must work for ourselves to live, but at the same time we should also work to do something useful for other people and the society as a whole. If we do not create a situation in which we share our responsibilities and only competition and survival prevails, the society will become quite unstable and dangerous. We already face an increase in crime. Such a trend could lead to fascism, we cannot be sanguine about this..

KUDO: For example, we can carry out public works by accumulating long-term debts because we expect benefits for the future generations. But actually there might be a possibility that the future generations do not want these. It is the same in the case of pension funds. There is little confidence that the current political system can solve this problem.

OKAMOTO : I am sometimes invited to local gatherings to give lectures, where I meet bosses of the local shops, bosses of small size enterprises or farmers, who are seriously worried and suffering. Such people who live with their feet on the ground do not believe in public works anymore.

They used to think that it was good if such public works provided money to local businesses. But the situation is different now. If roads and bridges are constructed, it might only result in increasing debts, they think. This leads them to think seriously about how they should live locally. Although the correct answers to these questions are not easy to come by, they try their best and do various experiments. Their backs are against the wall.

KOHNO: I think it very important, as Mr. Okamoto pointed out, to have opportunities to get out and see what is happening for ourselves. As the chief editor of a magazine who also works as a manager, he is busy with various jobs and rarely has the chance to get out and talk with people on the ground. Our ideas are rarely expanded by meeting with chief editors or colleagues with other publishing companies. When we incidentally meet, we quite often do no more than only meaningless exchanges of views like how circulation is going. However, as Mr. Okamoto mentioned, if we go out and meet street vendors or farmers and listen to them then we might steadily find new ideas, or confirm actual changes now under way.

KUDO: We would have to move around more, listen to other people's opinions, and raise good opinion leaders. Thus we ourselves would have to fight against the era and worry seriously. I sincerely wish you both well as chief editors.
Thank you very much for your time today.